Feeding in individual breeding pens

Here we can discuss various kinds of feed and feeding methods to get some results we aim for.

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Feeding in individual breeding pens

Postby Steve W » Mon Apr 11, 2016 12:35 pm

Noticed my breeding pairs in their individual pens flick all the corn and most peas out of feed trough and eat all small seeds yet in loft everything is eaten any ideas? They are still raising nice youngsters but wasting alot of feed.
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Re: Feeding in individual breeding pens

Postby Karl » Mon Apr 11, 2016 2:52 pm

This may have something to do with the size of the feeding trough. If one has a long trough with only a layer of feed in it the birds realize that there is no feed under this layer. They either decide to eat what they see or not. In the individual pens you may use smaller feeders that are filled an inch deep. The birds may like the seeds and kick anything above these seeds out to get at them. I would test this by supplying one individual pen with a very large trough and use just a shallow layer of feed in it.
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Re: Feeding in individual breeding pens

Postby david rodgers » Mon Apr 11, 2016 5:01 pm

I USE A RABBIT CAGE. 2X3X16 HIGH. THE BEST I FOUND FOR FEED AND WATER IN THESE. IS A WINDOW WASHER CONTAINER. I CUT IT 3 AND HALF INCHES FROM THE BOTTOM ,THE HOLE IS 4X6 INCHES WIDE. THEN I PUT A SMALL PIECE OF A LOG FOR THEM TO STAND ON TO DRINK AND EAT. VERY LITTLE IF ANY KICKED OUT. HOPE THIS HELPS
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Re: Feeding in individual breeding pens

Postby Roly » Fri Aug 26, 2016 11:01 am

Karl wrote:This may have something to do with the size of the feeding trough. If one has a long trough with only a layer of feed in it the birds realize that there is no feed under this layer. They either decide to eat what they see or not. In the individual pens you may use smaller feeders that are filled an inch deep. The birds may like the seeds and kick anything above these seeds out to get at them. I would test this by supplying one individual pen with a very large trough and use just a shallow layer of feed in it.


A good post. I learnt some more there Karl. Also from Dave 'Reality'. The means too.

Was a very good fancier. Indeed extraordinary. Fed by hand. He first of put a handful of a mixture before them. Noticing what was ate first he fed mostly that. Next day same. Said the birds were telling him what they lacked of needed. True the pigeon doesn't know what we have in store for them, and a little of what you wanted them to have could be placed before them.
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Re: Feeding in individual breeding pens

Postby Karl » Fri Aug 26, 2016 2:33 pm

Roly wrote:...
Was a very good fancier. Indeed extraordinary. Fed by hand. He first of put a handful of a mixture before them. Noticing what was ate first he fed mostly that. Next day same. Said the birds were telling him what they lacked of needed. True the pigeon doesn't know what we have in store for them, and a little of what you wanted them to have could be placed before them.

I share this opinion in that the birds are telling a fancier what they need, Roly, but only we know what kind of race we have scheduled for them on the weekend as you noted above. Therefore only we can tell how much fuel they need for what is expected of them and we should supply this amount and perhaps an extra hour of flying just to be on the safe side. The pigeon nutritionist Willem Mulder has written extensively about this. Here is a link to one of his gems: http://www.albertaclassic.com/2016/Wim%20Mulder1.pdf
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Re: Feeding in individual breeding pens

Postby Roly » Thu Sep 08, 2016 4:41 am

What happens to unused fuel? Feel it better to have a little more than needed than less as the bird then draws on units of heat elsewhere. Like the muscle later which causes unwanted and nasty toxins... Which take rest and time to put right.
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Re: Feeding in individual breeding pens

Postby Karl » Thu Sep 08, 2016 10:09 pm

Roly wrote:What happens to unused fuel? Feel it better to have a little more than needed than less as the bird then draws on units of heat elsewhere. Like the muscle later which causes unwanted and nasty toxins... Which take rest and time to put right.

I read somewhere that the form decreases if fed to excess just like a race car that carries a full tank to just finish the last couple of rounds of a race - the team will make sure that the fill is just enough to finish the race.
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Re: Feeding in individual breeding pens

Postby Roly » Fri Sep 09, 2016 9:07 am

Agree there Karl.
But wouldn't unused fuel turn to fat or such? This - I feel - may not be good and interfere with the rest etc. that may be needed before the next race .. alos of course then one would need a different amount of fuel, so filling up with the next tank wouldn't have a true reading :???: :roll:
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Re: Feeding in individual breeding pens

Postby Karl » Fri Sep 09, 2016 2:29 pm

As far as I understand it, Roly, you are absolutely correct.
It is also my suspicion that improper feed leads to the same result. Under the term "improper feed" I am thinking about any feed that is low in some essential nutrients. The birds may eat more just to get their requirements of these essential nutrients but store the excess calories as fat.
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Re: Feeding in individual breeding pens

Postby Roly » Sat Sep 10, 2016 6:41 am

I feel, personally two extremes may be the way to go regards systems and feeding.
Open loft and Hopper fed ... replacing protein etc with Carbs and fat, as the pigeon knows best and flies of any excesses - maybe.

Left in loft - A Ricky Mardis system - and only out Race days to exercise or race (Saturdays). They come out raring to go and full of zest when flying.
Again of course on a feed programme of Protein changing through the week. Any unused fuel would / maybe is, left to become fat. Proteins obviously as a repairing and building block. Job done then Cards and a little fat.
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Re: Feeding in individual breeding pens

Postby Halcanada » Sun Sep 11, 2016 11:31 am

wild.JPG
wild.JPG (110.67 KiB) Viewed 641 times

I sometimes wonder about feeds. So many different feeds on the market plus supplements and meds for every conceivable scenario. Sometimes I think the birds do good despite what they are fed.
Pic of my early warning system for predators. Barn pigeons under the bird feeder.
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Re: Feeding in individual breeding pens

Postby Roly » Sun Sep 11, 2016 11:57 am

Yep, believe a couple of streets cleaned up and persuaded to stay make great watch outs. Think grass - like algae - have great properties. Never seen weak buffalos, and great whales Hal. But don't think it would do the pigeon much good. Known fanciers to stir the green algae of the drinkers for them to drink ... Must be green, but never went along with it ... Though open loft often has old containers that the drink from.
Just thought Hal might be trying to tempt the birds with grass lol.
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Re: Feeding in individual breeding pens

Postby Halcanada » Sun Sep 11, 2016 5:53 pm

Open loft here when I can. Just grass for now until corn and soy beans are off. Wild pigeons were really wild when I first came here. Now they are cautious but not so wild. Never try to mix with mine or go in the loft. Just starting to see raptors now, heading South I assume. Heard of the green water thing. I cultivate for my baby fighting fish, never the birds.
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Re: Feeding in individual breeding pens

Postby connie » Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:19 pm

Corn is mainly a 'heat or fuel' feed and peas are the 'repair wrenches' in times of stress or injury.
Not much use for either 'fuel or repair' seeds in the breeding pen, so the birds throw them out.
They go for the smaller seed that is easier to turn into milk & porridge and then later for the YB to digest as a whole grain.

Even humans... to make a good pea or bean soup from scratch, we must soak them overnight, to get through the hard outer shell.
The birds' babies don't have that option.
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Re: Feeding in individual breeding pens

Postby Karl » Tue Aug 08, 2017 10:07 pm

The birds will tell you what they need. I have seen beautiful babies raised with a high percentage of peas but whatever the birds refuse to eat is not needed, perhaps even not good for them. A lot may depend on the kind of pea and its quality.
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Re: Feeding in individual breeding pens

Postby Roly » Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:25 am

Protein is a 'Building Block'. Never mind the good use of repair, tears and repairs, for that say a lot in it's self.

Was a time when Boxers' and athletes trained on 'Protein'. Indeed as some 'Old Timers', said it was more important to fight for the 'Steaks' than the small payments obtained. (In the 40's, 50's and early 60's a Good and large steak was always part and partial of the reward for fighting) Well! Gosh to put a Steak on the table for wife and kids made one so proud that they felt like Kings.
Of course the streak was more important in reality AFTER the fight than before. But it was misunderstood till the late 70's etc.
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Re: Feeding in individual breeding pens

Postby David Kaplan » Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:35 am

Some of you may remember the article on the website below about Ron Stampford of Ware in Hertfordhire, England, his tiny loft, his few pigeons doing extremely well in the races … and that he feeds only beans! ||||^^ :?: :!:

http://www.pigeonracingpigeon.com/whats ... ng-method/
The courage of these birds continue to amaze me!
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Re: Feeding in individual breeding pens

Postby connie » Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:10 am

Yes Beans, Peas and Corn are great for racing but Steve's problem was for the pairs in individual breeding pens not eating them.
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Re: Feeding in individual breeding pens

Postby Karl » Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:48 am

connie wrote:Yes Beans, Peas and Corn are great for racing but Steve's problem was for the pairs in individual breeding pens not eating them.


The good thing, Connie, is that there is lots of other good grain that can be used instead of corn, peas and beans.
I got a couple of youngsters from a friend this year. They have been looking good and behaved like most of mine until last Thursday when I gave them a bit of extra corn after the evening meal. To my surprise they didn't know what to do with it but that changed in a hurry after a day of nothing but corn. :wink:
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Re: Feeding in individual breeding pens

Postby Halcanada » Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:45 pm

Feeding can be an art or a science. Depends on one's attitude towards feeding. New race mix I have here is 4 varieties of peas and lots of other grains. 14.5% protein. Birds leave peas etc until last. So now I mix it with corn. Also wild bird seed, millet milo etc,. Bird seed is 10% protein. Other bird seed used is 14% but only because of the addition of sunflower seed. Fat and fiber, did not check but around 4% I imagine. However, birds do much better on the low protein mix as far as I can tell.
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